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I don't know how to say this, but you're basically dealing with racism. There was a time you couldn't even click on our neighborhood in the Times real estate map - it just didn't exist according to some people.

Some white yuppies thinks a diverse community equals crime.

That being said, the small sidestreets on Flatbush (west side) do have a lot of crime and drug issues.

I was walking to Family Pizza about two months ago and heard shots about 10 feet from me. Then a guy darted by with a gun. I had to run into the Popeye's and call 911.

I wouldn't say our neighborhood is dangerous, but I do describe it to people as "gritty." It's not Bed Stuy but it ain't Park Slope.

If you want a better understanding of the areas to stay away from, just talk up any cops on patrol around here. They will tell you.

This is a neighborhood in flux and the levels of crime can change dramatically from one block to another...


True enough about the block-by-block thing, Mytake. True. But that's also true of many places - even some parts of (dare we say) Park Slope. PLG is also not the only diverse neighborhood in Brooklyn.

We still think the whole PLG-hater thing is a little peculiar and suspicious...


I will say that I find it very bizarre that someone always throws PLG under the bus on brownstoner. ALWAYS.


Without question, no other neighborhood gets trashed on Brownstoner in the same vile manner as PLG. There are probably a variety of reasons why this is so. But since we're all just speculating here, let me throw out this theory:
Suppose what's going on is a concerted effort to drive down the cost of purchasing a home in PLG? Under this theory: if you trash the neighborhood, and get potential buyers to turn away from it, the prices will drop. In the gentrification era, such a tactic might emerge as an attempt at reverse "blockbusting."

Just a thought.

Bob Marvin

Theory 4;

Freaks (aka trolls) who don't especially hate PLG but get off on stirring up trouble. They've noticed that people here feel strongly about our neighborhood and have fun by throwing in outragious bulls**t like "If you're someone who doesn't want a softball-sized gunshot wound, then.. [PLG is] probably not for you."

If we disregard the obvious trolls, this last thread on Brownstoner was actually a pretty good discussion about our neighborhood.So, IMO, the best tactic to use on the Brownstoner blog is to

1--ignore the trolls

2--contribute positive stuff, from our own experience, about PLG.


Actually, I've quite enjoyed ripping apart some of those idiots.


you know, anything that may happen here can happen anywhere else. i hear lots of stories about people getting assaulted/etc in park slope. but i would agree that this area should be taken on a more block by block basis. there are some gang related incidents every now and then.

but brownstoner is ridiculous.

Bob Marvin


It CAN be fun--I've done it also--but they NEVER stop. For example, the last post on the thread in question, form a few minutes ago, simply reads "BUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", referring to a really stupid attack on a PLG defender who lives in another neighborhood.How do you respond to that BS?

My suggestion is to respond to substantive posts, but simply ignore the trolls--they DO go away when they're not fed.

PLG Resident

I don't think it's that complicated. I think it's because PLG and surrounding area are black neighborhoods. I've seen people on brownstoners say the same thing about Bed Stuy and Crown Heights.

Some white people with money and from the midwest are having a hard time buying and changing these neighborhoods. I think they say these things out of frustration and hate. They can't create the isolated communities they've done in Williamsburg, Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights and Boreum Hill. They even complain bout Clinton Hill too.

Some people hate so-called "black culture", period. They don't want to be around it, see it, hear or smell it.


You really, really have to stop responding. If for no other reason than that our neighborhood is appreciably more dangerous and less desirable than Park Slope. Someone was shot and killed in front of the Aladdin on Flatbush and Clarkson. There are three stoops on my block on which there are ALWAYS people standing sentry that I do not believe to be part of the "neighborhood watch." I can't keep the front of my house clean because the wind takes the unbagged garbage from the apartment building down the block and deposits it all the way down the street.

Also, you (read: the collective defenders of PLG) would be more convincing about how much you love your neighborhood if the constant tone of these types of fora weren't a constant drumbeat of how many things you want to change. I knew exactly what I was getting when I bought and I'm a little uncomfortable about shoving my preferences in the face of the preexisting community.

Don't get me wrong; I want a Thai restaurant and a first run movie theater in PLG. I just can't bring myself to fervently rag - or fervently defend - my new neighborhood.


I think it speaks volumes about who the commentors are as people. A paranoid, judgemental lot; though also likely the first to lay claim to self-righteous indignation when it suits them.

Plus anonymous responses make doing this so easy.

Bob Marvin

It's very hard NOT to respond to idiotic posts like the "softball-sized gunshot wound" comment, although we really should ignore these bulls*it posts because the trolls who leave themo nly want PLG defenders to loose their tempers.

OTOH, responses on "Brownstoner" that acknowlege real shortcomings in PLG might enhance our credibility and defend against the (probably trolling) charges that PLG people are overly sensitive.

I really don't know what to do re the brownstoner blog. i think it's a valuable resource and the postings about PLG HAVE gotten more constructive lately (despite the occasional"softball-sized gunshot wound" crap). I try to respond to the posts that seem serious and ignore the obvious trolls, but I don't really know if I'm doing the right thing (or if there even IS a "right thing" in this regard).


I hear you Bob. I have tried different responses to the bigots and trolls on Brownstoner. Sometimes defending PLG vigorously; sometimes remaining mute; sometimes attempting to take the "high road" by only making positive statements; sometimes, just shaking my head and swearing off ever reading that stupid blog again.

The only point on which I think I disagree with you is when you describe the problem as being the mischief of a few "obvious trolls."

As a woman of color, I gotta tell you that I see the issue as being way bigger than that. Indeed, in George Bush's Post-911/America 2006, we are experiencing a tremendous groundswell of neocon racist, classist, xenophobic thinking and behavior. So, obvious juvenile trolls aside, I suggest to you that some of the latter ilk have found a happy home on Brownstoner.com

I only wish I could tell you that it really does not hurt me the way these folk talk about Black people and other people of color, about poor people and poor nabes, and about have-nots in general on that blog. But it does! Indeed, there is a real pain that comes with racism and classism,(and every other kind "ism" for that matter) that can not be so simply dismissed . . . even when the dagger is no more than a weapon of thought yet it is intentionally aimed at your heart. On the basis of my personal experience, I have reached the regrettable conclusion that any attempt to have a productive, constructive dialogue with such folk -- at least within the contex of a nameless, faceless, blog discussion is, alas, useless.

Notwithstanding all the above, Bob, I think you do an excellent job of dealing with the trolls, neocon racists-classists, etc. on Brownstoner. Hats off to you for demonstrating exceptional cyberspace diplomacy.

My hope is that we PLGers will both embrace and struggle with our own process of neighborhood change in such a way that we will continue to hold on fiercely to the rich cultural, racial, and class diversity that has made this such a great place to live.


"My hope is that we PLGers will both embrace and struggle with our own process of neighborhood change in such a way that we will continue to hold on fiercely to the rich cultural, racial, and class diversity that has made this such a great place to live."



So... What does everyone think about those cement trees?

Hum de dum, do, dee do...



My God, it's here too!

Just wanted to say I love the site, and I love the nabe. If I had lived in PLG, I certainly would not have moved.

I'll be the one at the cafe tomorrow in dark glasses. Hope to meet some of you good folks!

Bob Marvin


"Waltr's" post is a reference to some of the nonsense that's been going on within the Brownstoner blog--it's really not worth repeating IMO.

Bob Marvin

Janet--it's just idiotic nonsense from childish trolls.

If you really want to see what it's about, follow the link at the beginning of this item.


Basically, on Brownstoner, there is a blogger (who I now refer to as "Mister Mystery") who blogs anonymously or uses several different aliases to pretend he's several different people. Sometimes he pretends to take an alternate point of view and sometimes he comments on his own comments. I had a long conversation tonight, and it became quite clear that it was just the two of us. For some reason this person likes to talk BS about PLG. I don't know who it is, but I don't understand why he doesn't become a playwright - he seems to love writing dialogue.


I've pretty much stopped posting on there because the entire debate got pretty old, pretty fast.

My take on things is that alot of it is racism pure & simple. PLG is the only neighborhood of "color" abutting Prospect Park and is getting quite a bit of attention for it's affordability. Also throw in quite a few Park Slopers who seem to need to justify the high price of admission to their hood by believing that the everyone wants to live in PS and don't, only because we can't afford it. They're threaten by those of us who, while working to improve our neighborhood, don't want to see PLG turn into the next PS.


I think Mr. Mystery has gotten to our site too.

Folks the two rediculous entries above (regarding (a) gravel in my hair and (b) swingers) are OBVIOUSLY authored by me. Someone has co-opted my screen name and e-mail address.


Clarification - those entries are obviously NOT authored by me!


You bastard! Everyone, the posts from last night ARE mine, but the two from today are not.


"You bastard! Everyone, the posts from last night ARE mine, but the two from today are not. "

That's Mr. Mystery again. He's coopted my identity now. He's sent swingers to my e-mail address.

If you follow the piece, you will see (a) I exposed this idiot, (b) he retalliated by co-opting my identity and posting rediculous things about gravel and swingers, (c) I exposed his technique again, (d) he's still coopting my identity.

I'm not sure it's legal to send swingers to my e-mail address. I think that constitutes harrassment. You're behaving criminally now. It won't be so cute in the future, will it?


Let's not concentrate on the views of people who do not live in the neighborhood.
We know both the positives and negatives of the community, but let's all work to make PLG stronger and ignore the critics.

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