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PLG rez

I agree for the most part. I think that the single family restriction works for and against the neighborhood - it's hard for the population to increase when you're facing that kind of limitation.

I've also noticed an influx of young, mostly white people in the neighborhood. I can't help but fear that there is some displacement happening.

Bob M

Remember that the single family restriction ONLY applies to the eight blocks and six hundred homes in Lefferts Manor. That's not even the whole of the historic district, which also includes the north side of Lincoln II and both Sterling and Lefferts II and III. Even if the Historic District were extended to include the 13 individual houses on Ocean and all the places IN the original Proposed Historic District (c.1977) but left OUT of the final designated Historic District, about 3/4th of PLG might potentially be open to new development

PLG rez

Yes that's true. I'm not saying that I disgree with the restriction. The truth of the matter is that a lot of Manor houses are pretty small and would make for miserable multi-family dwellings.

I'm inclined to think that ATP is right when s/he says that we'll end up looking like a cross between Ditmas and Fort Greene. In terms of housing, we look a lot like the middle ground between the two.


Bob, you are right on target as always. The one-family restriction being limited to Lefferts Manor only is quite an honor and privilege for those who live there. But I think these residents account for less than 1/4 or one quarter of the population when you take into consideration all the apartment buildings on Lefferts, Sterling, Lincoln Road, Patio Gardens and Fenimore Street (south side) plus a multitude of buildings outside the Historic District starting at Hawthorne and extending further south all the way to Clarkson Avenue.

These are great buildings mostly pre-war that will probably attract the mostly young white hipster-types referred to in PLGrez' comments. I think that room for expansion or development is greater than most of us think.

"The truth of the matter is that a lot of the Manor houses are pretty small and would make for miserable multi-family dwellings." Well, that may be partially true of the two-story Manor homes which average approximately 2000 square feet. But the 3 and 4 story Manor homes (3000-4000 square feet) are considerably larger than the multi-family homes outside the Historic District with the exception of the townhouses on Parkside Avenue. Any free-standing building would not be comparable in style and design...and really, it's the design of the Manor houses that prohibits them from being multi-family, not the size.


Low density??
I don't know about that. This neighborhood is Jam Packed with apartment buildings Unlike Park Slope
"households per block in PLG is probably substantially lower than in places like Park Slope."
The blocks here are very long between avenues as well, so there are probably more houses per block. If you look at the population density for our area it is just over 100,000 people in one square mile. I think our neighborhood has a much higher population density than most 19th century-developed Brooklyn neighborhoods. The fact that there are so many large apartments here already is why there is not much developement. There is little space left to develop. That is why you see things like developers paying 1.2 million dollars to tear a house down and put up a building. Places like WIlliamsburg exploded because there was so many empty commercial buildings that became residential lending to the "new" population growth. PLG is a very residential area that IMHO is quite densely populated.
That said...I agree with you, the neighborhood has seen recent changes and yes...I think you are right on the money with
"we'll probably end up looking like the love child of Fort Greene and Ditmas"


I agree with Tg. Also, the majority of the neighborhood is still solidly Caribbean-- with many of those Caribbean families owning homes or co-op apartments, like the ones on Hawthorne.
And they are not interested in hip little cafes and boutiques. But what frustrates me is that everybody woud be interested in cleaner, better stores-- and generic things like a sandwich shop or a clean gift/novelty shop. And the Caribbean restaraunts could be better too, and they might be, if there were competent stores opening up around them. Take Ali's Roti shop-- the place is so attractive- but every time I go in there they're out of everything. C'mon--people love doubles-- nake enough of them so you don't run out by noon!
I have been so frustrated to read about up and coming neighborhoods all over the city, while we remain stagnant, with Flatbush populated by many useless, dirty stores, (I'm not referring to the salons.)
I've been here or coming here for nearly five years-- and almost nothing has changed-- despite the numerous hipsters moving in.

Sorry-- this post is just the kind I hate- all griping and no solutions. But I had to whine a little.

PLG rez

I think you're right Nicole. Things take time - I happen to have heard some gossip about businesses that are soon to arrive. Sit tight and watch PLG grow! The type of explosive growth that took place in Williamsburg, for example, is over - that phenomenon has come nad gone. PLG's growth will be more slow and steady - with luck to our advantage. Growth so far has been different from that in Williamsburg b/c new businesses are incorporating the needs of longtime residents AND newbies. A lot has changed in the last 5 years - patience is virtue.

Harry In Shorts

Most reports of the hipster influx have been substantiated by numerous reports of converse and aviator sunglasses sightings in the vicinity of the Lincoln Rd. area. Truth be told Clap your Hands Say Yeah is a weak wet nurse of a far superior post-punk band called the Talking Heads. Arcade Fire is overrated and I despise your predictable pageantry. Why do you do this to me? Your tattoo's are a not-so-subtle reminder of the disintegration of Rock and Roll into a fraternity of marketing and posturing fused with the half geek cannibalization of the iconoclast. I wanted to get away from you and you have followed me here. What's worse is that you even liked Dave Mathew's up until two years ago and you can't just sweep those sorts of things under a skull and crossbone Hoodie.


oh how i've missed you harry! :)


Any post like this needs to acknowledge the role of race in neighborhood development. When you say influx of "younguns" its pretty clear who you are talking about - young white people.

So why is it necessary for neighborhood development to be done on a gentrification model? PLG and all the neighboring areas are majority people of color, and majority Carribbean. Infrastructure wise, we have great access to the park, some attractions, great mass transit, comparably low crime rates, and wonderful access to shopping areas. Of course, all the infrastructure needs improvement - why can't existing business associations, community groups, etc., be the focus of ATPs theory of development?

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