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Bob M

This is in line with the new trend towards retro names in PLG. "Enduro", as Marty Markowitz pointed out at their opening party, is the original name of Juniors restaurant. The southern part of what is now PLG, was an unsuccessful real estate development called "Melrose Park" in the early 1880s. No doubt this was a very astute real estate broker combining that historic name with "Leferts Manor". (You don't think it could have just been dumb luck, with an emphasis on the DUMB, do you?) :-)

babs

It looks as though they've fixed it now. Incidentally, this house was featured on Brownstoner as a house of the day on Thursday (and all 15 comments seem to have been deleted there due to the usual troll activitiy whenever PLG is mentioned there), when it was compared to Aguayo & Huebener's listing at 62 Midwood.

Bob Marvin

There were a LOT more than 15, most of them pretty stupid. "Jon Brownstoner"tried deleting only the idiotic ones, but apparantly gave up when they started again. One of the a**hole trolls briefly posted all the deleted posts here, under the "Enduro: Open. Almost" thread, but our intrepid ATP host was quick to remove them.

jd

That was an unfortunate occurance on Brownstoner. There were many interesting and astute comments on the pricing of this house as opposed to others in the area. I adore this row of houses, but I won't be surpirsed to see the price trimmed by a few hundred K for this one (which is listed with Urban Living). As for Brownstoner, I often think the "troll" term is overused and thrown about whenever someone says anything slightly negative about PLG. Most postings on Brownstoner about our area are no more heated or troll-riddden than those on many other areas. But that was indeed a case of a nasty troll.

Ed

I don't buy the "PLG-ers are oversensitive" argument. I think someone or a few people regularly try to stir up s*** on Brownstoner by grossly misrepresenting crime stats in the neighborhood, and the responses by residents are totally justified.

Meanwhile, it cracks me up when the oppressed take the side of the oppressor. It's the logic behind black republicans. Or gay republicans for that matter. Or female republicans!

Ed

42 Midwood was sold for $1.135M on October 31, 2006. Anyone know what's going on here?

jd

I completely agree that there are many posters who say absurd things about the crime in our area. But that does not automatically make them "trolls." I know many people (most of whom live across the park, as it were) who say the same thing. It is a widely held misconception. Most of the posts about crime in PLG are wrong but I believe genuine. Obviously there are some trolls who say things with the intention of stirring outrage--but that is by far the minority. I think responding with outrage and throwing around the troll accusation is a huge mistake. Also, let's be real and acknowledge that crime is a problem here. No you won't get shot walking home and no your kids won't get caught by stray bullets playing on the stoop, but sure there is a lot of drug-related crime around.

About 42 Midwood, that's strange. If it is a flip, they should have done some work before upping the price by 150K--and waited longer than 1 month.

Bob Marvin

Granted that some of the crime posts are a misconception rather than delberate attempts to stir up s**t, as Ed put it, but that was NOT what happened on the thread in question here.

I think the proper response to real trolling behavior is to ignore the a**holes--if you don't feed the little buggers they might go away:-)

Misconceptions based on ignorance are more problematic. I think posts by people who live here, and know what they're talking about, help a lot, especially when they're not just from me and a few other regulars. However, the repetition of rumors, misunderstood facts, and bizarre opinions on the internet, which become accepted as unquestioned "facts " is endemic on all subjects and is probably just a normal and unavoidable part of human behavior.
The "genuine" repetition of the "fact" that PLG is extremely "dangerous" is most frustrating since (IMO, but based on MANY years of living here) our neighborhood is relatively safe, as brownstone neighborhoods go.(IMHO we have one of the SAFEST brownstone neighborhoods). This is not to say there isn't crime here and the awful murder of Tiesha Sargeant last spring is certainly an example of an innocent victim (apparently) caught up in drug violence, but such terrible crimes are very much the exception here.

nix

I think the people Bob referred to as trolls WERE actually trolls- people posting completely idiotic, mean-spirited, rambling things under a fake name and fake email. Sometimes 2 fake names and emails. That's a different thing than someone complaining about the crime here. No?

Ed

JD - I think you may be a bit out of touch with crime in PLG yourself. Why do you think crime is a particular problem in PLG? Details please!!! (But please don't mention Teisha Sargent because that says as much about PLG as the recent Hudson Street murder says about the West Village - that women shouldn't let strange men into their apartments!).

The crew from the other side of the park feels entitled to express their concerns about crime. But let's not pretend - they rely on correlating a predominance of black people to high crime rather than considering actual statistics and experience. When PLG-ers refute exagerrated crime statistics, it forces folks to confront their racist feelings. They HAVE TO lash out and call PLG-defenders "too sensitive" because the alternative is too difficult for these people to accept - that they fear living near black people.

Frankly, I find "genuine" posters who exaggerate crime statistics to be as foolish and offensive as the trolls, and therefore, am not interested in making a distinction.

jd

This is becoming just like Bownstoner. As I said before, the person/people who was active on Friday's Bstoner post was certainly a troll. But as Ed says he and others see no difference between actual trolls and people who are simply "foolish" and express misconceptions. Ed and others use the troll term whenever someone says that PLG is dangerous--and that is the mususe I was refering to.

As far as my misconceptions of crime here, I wouldn't be raising my kids here if I thought they were in danger. That said, since I moved here there have been many break-ins, one of which occured when the owner was home, and a number of muggings. And I walk by drug-deals every week (which is a crime, by the way). Is it more dangerous than other areas? I don't know--but I am aware of more crime and see more criminal activity than I did in my old neighborhood, Prospect Heights (which had plenty of crime back then). I know that to Ed this makes me a racist, but I do think crime is an issue here.

Harry BoBerry Banana Fanna

Crime is an issue that will truly be squeled about when a white person is a vicim of a black crime, otherwise it's still far removed although it's happening just down the block, it's not particularly relevant because it has no affect on the white social structure of white news that affects white people.I am not a troll but will testify that my neighbor across from me (I'm closer to the 2 and five) has fired pistol shots into the air. Something bad eventually will happen to some white person here and it will make more news than Teisha Sargeant and we all will reconsider things. I'm simply being realistic, nothing else. In the mean time don't think you own the place and keep on guard. Yes, PLG is safe. Relatively. But when you look at the map of our neighborhood how much of PLG do you actually know?

Ed

Yes, I DO NOT distinguish between trolls and those who exaggerate crime statistics to far beyond what they really are because I think such distinction is artificial and silly. Both groups serve the same purpose - to spread misinformation.

I'm surprised to hear your assessments of neighborhood crime, because, quite frankly, I've never heard of anyone getting mugged in the neighborhood. Nor have I heard of any break-ins (save for a rash of break-ins committed by a single perpetrator two years back - the guy has since been caught.)

I'm not going to argue that drug trafficking and sales aren't problematic for numerous reasons, but let's be real - witnessing a transaction is not the same getting mugged or having something stolen from your house, despite the fact that all of the above can be classified as unlawful. I'm pretty sure that neighborhood critics who discuss about the extreme dangers of living in PLG aren't talking about pot smoking. I'm also pretty sure that these critics live in neighborhoods where lots of pot is smoked, because quite frankly, people are toking up all over this city.

So let's put corner drug sales in perspective. Do they provide proof that PLG is a wildly dangerous neighborhood? No, certainly not.

Are they an nuissance and source of potential trouble that if curtailed would improve PLG's quality of life? Yes, absolutely.

In doorman buildings in Manhattan, dealers make deliveries just like the pizza boy.

Ed

Much of the confusion regarding crime has to do with the fact that Lefferts Manor and Nostrand and beyond are vastly different neighborhoods, even though they all fall under the "PLG" heading.

Ed

Harry Banana - what did you mean when you wrote: "In the mean time don't think you own the place and keep on guard"?

Truth told, we all own the neighborhood, and we are all responsible for maintaining it.

Did you do your part and call the cops when you heard shots fired across from your building near Nostrand Ave.? Have you followed up on getting rid of a likely illegal gun in the neighborhood? If you don't, you're only contributing to the problem...

Harry BoBerry Banana Fanna

P.S. White people will generally choose a high crime predominately latino/white neighborhood before a lower crime predominately black neighborhood. We are the exceptions. Let's enjoy our low cost of living while it lasts before there's just enough laptops and converse on the street to make it comfortable for all those who would have never considered living here otherwise. A new era of white influx and development of this neighborhood has begun with the success of K-dog being the fulcrum and gauge. The flood gates are open. Everything now is Pre and Post K-Dog. White residents will increase rapidly. More white catered businesses will open and be successful. Needs will double and multiply. Enduro is the first Post K-Dog restaurant and will probably make it. You'll all get what you want and never think twice about any of this nonsense.

Ed

"You'll all get what you want"??? I'd venture to say the overwhelming majority of "white" people don't want PLG to to be a "white" neighborhood. Nor do they want "white" racist neighbors. But everyone (black or white) in their right minds wants to live in a SAFE neighborhood with NICE stores and GOOD services.

By the way - K-Dog isn't a "white" business. The owners are part black, and the staff and clientele are racially mixed. The difference between K-Dog and the last coffee shop is in the planning and expertise of the owners.

Harry BoBerry Banana Fanna

Ed! Wow. A radical philosophy also shared by the only official American Terrorist organization on the books (The Weathermen) who believed that not opposing the War in Vietnam was an act of War in itself. Your idealistic propaganda doesn't fly with me and you've already admitted that your sense of neighborhood doesn't particularly encompass the unpretty parts. So which is it Ed? Neighborhood or Neighborhoods? And whose responsible for what? If you must know I learned about the whole shots in the air ordeal by the cops themselves and felt it a little redundant to telephone them while they were already at the scene. Keeping on guard and not thinking that you own the place is generally good advice for most situations including, but not limited to, Prospect Lefferts Gardens and beyond.

Harry BoBerry Banana Fanna

A white business is not about the ethnicity of the owners it's about where the money comes from.

Ed

It's Neighborhoods. Plural. There's nice Lefferts Manor. Then there is tacky, run down Nostrand and beyond. Duh. Isn't it obvious?

Meanwhile, I don't romanticize ghetto life and downward mobility, sorry. I'll admit I could be more compassionate, and I don't want to hurt anyone, but I'm not doing anyone a service by letting them off the hook by re-evaluating standards. Frankly, I grew up around the downwardly mobile, and I have no interest in going back. But I'd love our lovely Lefferts Manor to be racially and "culturally" mixed.

Ed

Someone PLEASE enumerate the improvements non-whites want in PLG, and why the suggestions of whites are so offensive?

Ed

Harry Banana, you sound like Nativegal, my girlfriend. Come out!

Ed

"Keeping on guard and not thinking that you own the place is generally good advice for most situations".

The "keep your blinders on" and "mind your own business" mentality that pervades ghetto life is the same mentality that leads to trashy, run-down neighborhoods.

Maybe a sense of ownership/pride are good for certain downtrodden commercial strips (e.g., Nostrand, Flatbush, areas with large apartment buildings, etc.).

Harry BoBerry Banana Fanna

No it's not obvious Ed becuase in one sentence you say 'neighborhood' and the next 'neighborhoods'.

Keeping on guard and not thinking that you own the place is vastly different than keeping your blinders on and minding one's own business. If that's what I meant I would have said that.

So if it's 'neighborhoods' and not 'neighborhood' than I suppose we are all responsible for maintaining Leffert's Manor, not the surrounding area which comprises most of PLG?

Ed

Harry Banana, according to you there are two neighborhoods as well - one comprised of black residents and one comprised of white residents. Frankly, I find it much less offensive to differentiate based on the physical aesthetics of the streetscapes and buildings than the skin color of the residents.

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